Thread: What would a new Trail bike look like?

OK so the title ask the question. If honda were to modernize the ct70, what would it look like? Or what would you like to see changed?

- I would like to see the bike keep the stamped frame, but make it a bit larger, and run at least 12" wheels. An increase in cc size would be good too. I wouldnt even mind a vertical engine, but thats where things start to break away from tradition.

So what are your thoughts?

Starting with a blank canvas, the possiblities are endless. To my way of thinking, you have to specify some basic parameters. Aside from running oneself mentally ragged, like a rat in a maze, you have to define just what elements must be present to have a CT70 in the first place. Otherwise, you'd be creating a different bike altogether. For example, larger frame and wheels...Honda already tried that and it wasn't very successful (in terms of sales), they called it the ST90. Vertical engine? big improvment and in current production, just not used in small CT-type bikes widely available in North America. Ever hear of the CY50, a.k.a the "Naughty Dax", a.k.a. R&P (sold mainly in Japan, as I understand)? Both are very different bikes. Nothing wrong with that, they just aren't CT70s.

I'd say, for the sake of discussion, that the frame, horizontal engine, rear fender, foldable bars and overall size are non-negotiable. Ease of transport is a big part of the appeal and cars/trucks/SUVs are going to shrink in coming years. Likewise, the basic profile & frame shape define the model. So, just what do I consider open for changes?

• Suspension...rear gas shocks, with at least another inch of usable travel and springs matched to a 225lb rider with +/-100lbs of preload adjustment (or at least optional load-rated springs); front fork with 4-5" of suspension travel, suitably heavy springs and adjustbale preload & rebound - at least as parts counter options

• Brakes - 220mm disc front, 160mm rear disc optional

• Increase fuel tank capacity by 50-100%, which is possible, and/or a removable subtank like the setup found on the CT90/110, but fitted to the CT70 frame. Also add a fuel level gauge.

• Engine - long stroke (55.5-59mm), 125-140cc with enough power for 70mph top speed. That'd make for big torque,effortless cruising, and long engine life. Add a 5-plate secondary-mounted clutch and offer some bore-up kits over-the-counter, and a reliable 160-200cc could be possible for little money. I'd also like to see a five-speed tranny. Six would be even better, but just making 5 gears reliable in these cases would be a major achievment. Electric start might be a cool addition and factory EFI a quantum leap over a carburetor

• A 200 watt alternator, halogen lighting and at least an 80mph speedo, with tach & trip meter.

• Upgraded chain & sprockets to a size available with O-rings.

• Wheels/tires - retain the 10-inchers but offer low-profile 12-inch to fit the same hubs. You can't go too much taller overall and still fit the bike and low profile tires are more vulnerable to potholes and other roadmines. Honda NSR wheels are great looking 12-inchers and with available tire sizes aren't a lot taller overall than stock. For road use, 12-inch tires present a more & better performance options. Still, 12" wheels are a love-`em-or-hate-`em propostion. Wheels have a huge visual impact.

• Improve the seat pan to use the same mountings as the ST90 which were a lot stronger, use the ST70 rack but with quick release knobs for easy removal and add a lifting handle to the LH side of the frame where it would actually be useful. Add the ST70 model steering lock.

• The only structural changes I'd like to see would be some added strength in the lower engine mount/swingarm pivot area and possibly a slightly revised front end - another degree or three of fork angle and another inch of wheelbase - to make the bike a little more stable at speed and less wheelie-happy with added power. The mount area could easily be bolstered with a tiny bit of added metal, the front end changes done with revised fork trees. I'd like to see parts interchangeability retained right back to the K0s.

Taken as a whole, that's one large list. What they, if you're gonna dream, might as well dream big Still, the bike would be instantly recognizable as a CT70, weight would be roughly the same and you'd still be able to stash it in the back of your daily driver. Minimalist, on/offroad, 2-passenger transportation with a comfortable ride and easy tuning potential would be a quite a stretch. What makes takes this out of the realm of the surreal is the fact that most of this can be done with existing parts. If Honda built new CTs to these specs, the cost would a lot less. Just goes to show ya to most powerful word in the English language "IF"...

Please I want one of these as soon as production has begun. Racerx , you should be working for Honda.

Honda already makes a modernized version of the CT70 in Japan. It's called the Honda Ape 100.

The Naughty Dax is the precurser to the Ape 100.

http://www.honda.co.jp/motor-lineup/...t_photo_01.jpg

Honda will never bring back the stamped CT70 frame again for production. They recreated this in 1991-1994 and it was a miserable failure. People didn't buy them and in 1994 they sold less then 1300 units. With the DOT and NHTSA standards, they can't make it pass saftey and emissions standards and look good at the same time.

Additionally, in Japan, the Honda Monkey (Z50) will no longer have a carb. Starting next year, it's moving to fuel injection which is going to temporarily screw up the performance aftermarket until the tuners and produce the necessary software to account for changes in engine parameters.

I would also like to see non engine mounted footpegs and the stock pipe, tucked in a little better so you dont get the standard leg burn when wearing shorts. A regular twist grip throttle with a nice snap return would be nice too . The Ape 100 is a nice looking bike, but in no way resembles the CT.

I agree the ape no way resembles a ct, but i love the looks of them. I alwasy have. I wonder is it possible to build something that looks like the ape from parts? Since the ape will never come to the states, right?

Pony Express is dead-on. The CT70 is gone from Honda's lineup, never to return. I imagine it's their equivalent of the P1800 Volvo, an iconic vehicle whose time has come & gone. I should hope that a better bike than the original CT70 could be built, it's been 38 yesars since its introduction. That kind of longevity speaks volumes, mainly illustrating that, for what it is anyway, it's a classic. But, like any "classic" vehicle, none will ever remain "state of the art" for very long. They're appreciated for reasons other than cutting edge tech.

For those of us wanting something better, upgrades are the realm of privateers...just like classic musclecars. Newer machines are far more capable, but lacking in uniqueness of character and ever more tightly regulated. Witness the popularity of restomdded musclecars. If you want a better bike, just whip out the wallet and buy one. If you want a better CT70, you'll need to break out the imagination.


BTW...Harry, I'll post pix of a CT that's damn close to what I've described in that earlier post. Gonna be late next month at the earliest...too busy for now and having computer problems.

Where can you find production numbers of bikes like the 1994 ct70. thanks KJ

I can derive production numbers from the ranges of engine and chassis serial numbers made of the 1991-1994 CT70. For the early models, there is no way to determine production and Honda keeps it secret.

Originally Posted by Pony Express

For the early models, there is no way to determine production and Honda keeps it secret.

With these bikes being chopped up and parted out on a daily basis it would be nice to know though.